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Posted: 3/5/2018 2:36:15 AM EDT
The .30 Carbine cartridge isn't really a superlative at anything in particular. It isn't a great flying, high BC cartridge like 6.5 Creedmoor, and it isn't a fat critter smasher like .45-70. But, it does offer an interesting combination of attributes, and it's extremely satisfying and enjoyable to shoot.
Performance is similar to .357mag out of a carbine length barrel with the .30 Carbine having an advantage in velocity and sometimes energy depending upon the load. It can be used for self defense and hunting small to medium sized game. It has light recoil and low blast from carbines making it an approachable cartridge for just about anyone capable of firing a rifle. The cartridge itself is relatively light and compact. Attached FileFor those unfamiliar with M1 Carbines, that mag on the left holds 15 rounds of .30 Carbine. That PMAG holds 10. These differences aren't a big deal for most guys in most situation, but it can make a difference for some people, and it's the sort of thing that adds up when you're doing stuff in volume. Speaking of which, this is what a 500 round case looks like relative to a G17:  Attached FileThat box weighs 15 lbs. The original M1 Carbine is a firearm loved for many reasons, but among them are its light weight and handy nature. Despite being an older design built with walnut and steel, it only weighs 5.2 lbs. And again, despite this combination of light weight and .357mag beating performance, the recoil is light to kid friendly levels and really pleasant in general. But there's also potential for improvement. Using modern manufacturing and materials, it's possible to reduce weight while adding features. It might even be possible to reduce weight enough to have a carbine that weighs 5 lbs or so with an optic. Another benefit to the cartridge is that its size allows for really short actions. Short throw levers, bolts, and SMG style actions are all options. (Two of these three have been done before.) Aside from the M1, there's a little Galil variant called the Magal that we never got here, and Marlin made the Model 62 Levermatic for a short period of time in the '60s. I've never seen a Levermatic in person, but they have a nice short throw. 
As far as existing rifles go... that it. What about handguns? If you want a .30 Carbine handgun today, your only option is the Ruger Blackhawk. From a revolver, the recoil is a little bit more substantial, but not bad. It is a little on the loud side. Performance suffers relative to a carbine, obviously, but it's still a fairly capable cartridge. I find it to be a relatively easy firearm to shoot well. Taurus made a double action revolver called the Raging Thirty for a while. When examples appear for sale, they demand crazy money, and you're still getting a Taurus. The AMT AutoMag III is out there, but rarity drives the price up, and I don't think I've ever heard anything good about AMT or their products. Overall, I think .30 Carbine is a highly underrated cartridge, and I think we should have more options chambered in it. It's a bit harder to argue for it in handguns due to its shape. The cartridge is long enough that it would be difficult to fit it in many semiauto pistols, and DA revolvers would probably require moon clips. I'd still like to see more options, and I'd be enthusiastic if anything appeared, but I understand why that hasn't happened. Rifles are a completely different story. This cartridge makes too much sense for it to only be offered in M1 replicas. It could be a great option for backpacker types looking for very light weight, it could be a great option for the recoil sensitive, and it could be a great option for enthusiasts. .30 Carbine would be great in any PCC type gun. It offers more power while retaining most of the other advantages that lead people to PCCs. The ammunition is already in production and readily available. We just need more guns. |
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Posted: 3/5/2018 2:40:27 AM EDT
[#1]
I do not disagree. A bul pup using M1 Carbine mags would be a dandy lady's home companion.
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Posted: 3/5/2018 2:44:54 AM EDT
[#2]
Came to post the Magal, was not disappointed.
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Posted: 3/5/2018 2:48:40 AM EDT
[#3]
I think you are onto something...there is a place for some sort of cartridge in between pistol and rifle rounds.
We could call them 'intermediate' cartridges! 
But in all seriousness, your argument is lightweight, and low recoil. Doesnt 300BO do everything you are talking about here? |
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Posted: 3/5/2018 2:54:07 AM EDT
[#4]
i'de like a 1022 in 30 carbine
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Posted: 3/5/2018 2:56:04 AM EDT
[#5]
That Magal is adorable
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Posted: 3/5/2018 3:06:45 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
i'de like a 1022 in 30 carbine 
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Posted: 3/5/2018 3:07:28 AM EDT
[#7]
I love the .30 carbine round. Another plus for it, it isn’t quite as loud as a bottlenecked high pressure 5.56 round.
I sketched out a design for bullpup .30 carbine, it isn’t the mall ninja’s wunderwaffe, but it would make for an ideal home defense, trunk gun, or even a LE duty/patrol rifle. Just need a small fortune to make my dream a reality.
There was another design from Taurus/FAMAE that only saw action in Brazil, the CT30. Imagine a Sig SG55x rifle in .30 carbine. They were issued to Brazilian law enforcement, but apparently sucked so much that they sent them back. Link I’d be into a modern rifle for the .30C. Shut up and take my money! Maybe someone could talk Magnum Research into making a Desert Eagle chambered for it, seems the dimensions are pretty close. |
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Posted: 3/5/2018 3:12:13 AM EDT
[#8]
Weren't there full auto M1 carbines? I'd roll with one of those..../
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Posted: 3/5/2018 3:13:58 AM EDT
[#9]
It's 2018. We don't need anything other than 03 shit in .30 Carbine.
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Posted: 3/5/2018 3:26:07 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think you are onto something...there is a place for some sort of cartridge in between pistol and rifle rounds. We could call them 'intermediate' cartridges!
But in all seriousness, your argument is lightweight, and low recoil. Doesnt 300BO do everything you are talking about here? Comparing carbine to carbine, an AR is a pound or so heavier than a M1, and the AR is noticeably bulkier. There's also the difference in the magazines. |
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Posted: 3/5/2018 3:29:29 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
i'de like a 1022 in 30 carbine
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Posted: 3/5/2018 3:30:58 AM EDT
[#12]
I don't think you could do it on a 10/22 sized carbine, but go up just a bit to the Deerfield that was chambered in .44mag and you're there. Make it a mag fed gun that uses M1 Carbine magazines Ruger could make new mags based on M1 mags as well.
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Posted: 3/5/2018 4:31:16 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Weren't there full auto M1 carbines? I'd roll with one of those..../ |
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Posted: 3/5/2018 4:55:06 AM EDT
[#14]
I wish a company like Magpul would make decent mags for our M1 Carbines.
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Posted: 3/5/2018 4:55:45 AM EDT
[#15]
Iver Johnson enforcer
I don't see why one of these couldn't be modified to accept a pistol brace. 
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Posted: 3/5/2018 6:01:22 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Weren't there full auto M1 carbines? I'd roll with one of those..../ If it's good enough for them it's good enough for me!
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Posted: 3/5/2018 6:28:21 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Iver Johnson enforcer http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-3_zpOMD3LEo/ULcfhJanZ4I/AAAAAAAA3Mg/yNv3vGZ71CI/s1600/01.jpg I don't see why one of these couldn't be modified to accept a pistol brace. |
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Posted: 3/5/2018 6:41:07 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think new enforcers are being made now. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Iver Johnson enforcer http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-3_zpOMD3LEo/ULcfhJanZ4I/AAAAAAAA3Mg/yNv3vGZ71CI/s1600/01.jpg I don't see why one of these couldn't be modified to accept a pistol brace. Add polymer furniture, a couple rail sections, some QD sockets and a Maxim-ish PDW brace. 
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Posted: 3/5/2018 6:48:48 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, they are. Inland M1 Advisor Add polymer furniture, a couple rail sections, some QD sockets and a Maxim-ish PDW brace.
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Posted: 3/5/2018 6:58:03 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
The .30 Carbine cartridge isn't really a superlative at anything in particular. It isn't a great flying, high BC cartridge like 6.5 Creedmoor, and it isn't a fat critter smasher like .45-70. But, it does offer an interesting combination of attributes, and it's extremely satisfying and enjoyable to shoot. Performance is similar to .357mag out of a carbine length barrel with the .30 Carbine having an advantage in velocity and sometimes energy depending upon the load. It can be used for self defense and hunting small to medium sized game. It has light recoil and low blast from carbines making it an approachable cartridge for just about anyone capable of firing a rifle. The cartridge itself is relatively light and compact. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/257918/30_carb_&_223_with_mags-472182.JPG For those unfamiliar with M1 Carbines, that mag on the left holds 15 rounds of .30 Carbine. That PMAG holds 10. These differences aren't a big deal for most guys in most situation, but it can make a difference for some people, and it's the sort of thing that adds up when you're doing stuff in volume. Speaking of which, this is what a 500 round case looks like relative to a G17: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/257918/30_carbine_case_vs_G17-472202.JPG That box weighs 15 lbs. The original M1 Carbine is a firearm loved for many reasons, but among them are its light weight and handy nature. Despite being an older design built with walnut and steel, it only weighs 5.2 lbs. And again, despite this combination of light weight and .357mag beating performance, the recoil is light to kid friendly levels and really pleasant in general. But there's also potential for improvement. Using modern manufacturing and materials, it's possible to reduce weight while adding features. It might even be possible to reduce weight enough to have a carbine that weighs 5 lbs or so with an optic. Another benefit to the cartridge is that its size allows for really short actions. Short throw levers, bolts, and SMG style actions are all options. (Two of these three have been done before.) Aside from the M1, there's a little Galil variant called the Magal that we never got here, and Marlin made the Model 62 Levermatic for a short period of time in the '60s. I've never seen a Levermatic in person, but they have a nice short throw. http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/MAGAL-03-390x211.jpg https://www.gunsamerica.com/UserImages/6502/976976448/wm_2598396.jpg As far as existing rifles go... that it. What about handguns? If you want a .30 Carbine handgun today, your only option is the Ruger Blackhawk. From a revolver, the recoil is a little bit more substantial, but not bad. It is a little on the loud side. Performance suffers relative to a carbine, obviously, but it's still a fairly capable cartridge. I find it to be a relatively easy firearm to shoot well. Taurus made a double action revolver called the Raging Thirty for a while. When examples appear for sale, they demand crazy money, and you're still getting a Taurus. The AMT AutoMag III is out there, but rarity drives the price up, and I don't think I've ever heard anything good about AMT or their products. Overall, I think .30 Carbine is a highly underrated cartridge, and I think we should have more options chambered in it. It's a bit harder to argue for it in handguns due to its shape. The cartridge is long enough that it would be difficult to fit it in many semiauto pistols, and DA revolvers would probably require moon clips. I'd still like to see more options, and I'd be enthusiastic if anything appeared, but I understand why that hasn't happened. Rifles are a completely different story. This cartridge makes too much sense for it to only be offered in M1 replicas. It could be a great option for backpacker types looking for very light weight, it could be a great option for the recoil sensitive, and it could be a great option for enthusiasts. .30 Carbine would be great in any PCC type gun. It offers more power while retaining most of the other advantages that lead people to PCCs. The ammunition is already in production and readily available. We just need more guns. |
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Posted: 3/5/2018 7:06:15 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think you are onto something...there is a place for some sort of cartridge in between pistol and rifle rounds. We could call them 'intermediate' cartridges!
But in all seriousness, your argument is lightweight, and low recoil. Doesnt 300BO do everything you are talking about here? End thread. The OP's argument, or stance, could have been made, and SHOULD have been made in the early 1980's or 1970's. Now, though, the round has been eclipsed. It's silly to try to bring it back. |
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Posted: 3/5/2018 7:18:39 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't think you could do it on a 10/22 sized carbine, but go up just a bit to the Deerfield that was chambered in .44mag and you're there. Make it a mag fed gun that uses M1 Carbine magazines Ruger could make new mags based on M1 mags as well. http://cdn2.armslist.com/sites/armslist/uploads/posts/2013/06/23/1797047_01_ruger_99_44_deerfield_carbine__640.jpg I have shot the .30 carbine AMT. That was fun. |
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Posted: 3/5/2018 8:46:04 AM EDT
[#23]
Here's a article showing a chassis with pistol brace
https://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/inland-teasing-micro-ebr-m1-based-30-carbine-pistol/ |
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Posted: 3/5/2018 8:54:40 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Here's a article showing a chassis with pistol brace https://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/inland-teasing-micro-ebr-m1-based-30-carbine-pistol/ 
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Posted: 3/5/2018 8:56:13 AM EDT
[#25]
I agree, 5.56 is little pew.
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Posted: 3/5/2018 9:03:34 AM EDT
[#26]
The Wikipedia page for the .30 carbine cartridge has a list of 18 rifles chambered for it, including an Olympic Arms AR-15.
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Posted: 3/5/2018 9:03:55 AM EDT
[#27]
This was being worked on at some point - the HEZI SM-1. IIRC it was a conversion using M1 Carbine receivers. Not sure what ever happened to it.
 Attached File |
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Posted: 3/5/2018 9:18:39 AM EDT
[#28]
Here is my candidate:
The upper receiver might work as is with a longer port. A new bolt head is no problem. Add a heavier buffer weight and spring. The bottom end requires redesign to accept non Glock magazines, none are deep enough for the .30 Carbine cartridge. How about a .30 Carbine Short? |
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Posted: 3/5/2018 9:18:56 AM EDT
[#29]
I want a .30 carbine P90.
And I do mean with the weird mags and FA. |
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Posted: 3/5/2018 9:23:02 AM EDT
[#30]
.30 carbine, the first 300 faggout
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Posted: 3/5/2018 9:33:08 AM EDT
[#31]
I don’t get it.
What does it do that 10mm auto (loaded hot or down to 40 S&W) can’t? It seems like an underachieving cartridge, at best. |
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Posted: 3/5/2018 9:34:53 AM EDT
[#32]
 Not 30 carbine (9x25), but in the same vein and Kiraly designed the M2 above.  Kiraly 43M: Hungary's Overpowered Submachine Gun |
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Posted: 3/5/2018 9:37:11 AM EDT
[#33]
Yea OP! While we're on the topic of modern, powerful cartridges, we need more firearms chambered in 7.62 Nagant as well!
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Posted: 3/5/2018 9:39:38 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
i'de like a 1022 in 30 carbine I'd never even thought of that hybrid combo. It'd take Ruger more than a year for production to catch up with demand. I'd also like for Lancer to make M-1 carbine magazines in any capacity- especially 10 to 20 rnd. |
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Posted: 3/5/2018 9:40:09 AM EDT
[#35]
I do not disagree but we need more .30 caliber carbine ammunition.
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Posted: 3/5/2018 9:44:37 AM EDT
[#36]
I hate these threads. Always make me sorely miss my IBM that I traded when I was younger and dumber.
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Posted: 3/5/2018 9:45:41 AM EDT
[#37]
If you want to go deaf discharge a Ruger Blackhawk in 30 carbine without hearing pro. Your ears will ring for 3 days. And that was outside. In a house your ears would bleed......
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Posted: 3/5/2018 9:51:12 AM EDT
[#38]
This thread makes me happy! |
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Posted: 3/5/2018 9:51:30 AM EDT
[#39]
Not sure if this is an Olympic Arms he's using what looks like an M1 carbine mag
 30 carbine m4 |
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Posted: 3/5/2018 9:59:03 AM EDT
[#40]
I say modernize the cartridge too, and get serious about the PDW concept again.
What I’ve been blathering about for awhile now is blowing out the little 5.7X28 (which being designed much more recently, is designed to operate at much higher pressures) to around .310 or so. Then you develop a 60-70gr expanding bullet to perform optimally at around 2000-2200 FPS. |
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Posted: 3/5/2018 10:04:07 AM EDT
[#41]
I've got an Olympic Arms .30 carbine upper, I'll get some pictures uploaded after work.
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Posted: 3/5/2018 10:06:55 AM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
......and Marlin made the Model 62 Levermatic for a short period of time in the '60s. I've never seen a Levermatic in person, but they have a nice short throw. LOL....A .30 Enforcer in a AR type of stock with a side-folding pistol brace would be interesting. 
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Posted: 3/5/2018 10:27:03 AM EDT
[#43]
Something like the Hipoint carbine would be great.
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Posted: 3/5/2018 10:29:27 AM EDT
[#44]
Quick, activate the Keltec-Signal...
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Posted: 3/5/2018 10:36:56 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: OH, HELL YEAH!!! I'd never even thought of that hybrid combo. It'd take Ruger more than a year for production to catch up with demand. I'd also like for Lancer to make M-1 carbine magazines in any capacity- especially 10 to 20 rnd. |
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Posted: 3/5/2018 11:55:30 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think you are onto something...there is a place for some sort of cartridge in between pistol and rifle rounds. We could call them 'intermediate' cartridges! |
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Posted: 3/5/2018 12:17:07 PM EDT
[#47]
I want to build a PS90 based gun in .30carbine.
I've even played with some mag designs to feed like a P90 
One day I may get some pieces 3d printed for testing. |
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Posted: 3/5/2018 12:47:36 PM EDT
[#48]
I too wish there were more 30 options.
The market needs something cheap to take advantage of the real benefit of 30. It's inexpensive ammo. Tulammo and herters have 30 carbine at my lgs. A much smaller buy in than say 300blk. A 400-500 firearm chambered in it would be perfect. Sage chassis's are too much. |
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Posted: 3/5/2018 1:31:30 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't think you could do it on a 10/22 sized carbine, but go up just a bit to the Deerfield that was chambered in .44mag and you're there. Make it a mag fed gun that uses M1 Carbine magazines Ruger could make new mags based on M1 mags as well. http://cdn2.armslist.com/sites/armslist/uploads/posts/2013/06/23/1797047_01_ruger_99_44_deerfield_carbine__640.jpg |
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Posted: 3/5/2018 2:24:39 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
+1 End thread. The OP's argument, or stance, could have been made, and SHOULD have been made in the early 1980's or 1970's. Now, though, the round has been eclipsed. It's silly to try to bring it back. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I think you are onto something...there is a place for some sort of cartridge in between pistol and rifle rounds. We could call them 'intermediate' cartridges!
But in all seriousness, your argument is lightweight, and low recoil. Doesnt 300BO do everything you are talking about here? End thread. The OP's argument, or stance, could have been made, and SHOULD have been made in the early 1980's or 1970's. Now, though, the round has been eclipsed. It's silly to try to bring it back. How does the noise and recoil of supersonic .300blk compare to .30 Carbine, and can it be made to fit in a truly compact and lightweight carbine like the M1? It's probably also worth mentioning that brass case .30 Carbine can be had for $.36 per round shipped, and steel case ammo is an option at $.25 per round. Scrolling past all the "Peak Performance" re-manufactured stuff, the cheapest factory new .300blk ammo I see with free shipping is $.50 per round. |
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